Monday, October 22, 2007

Bye, Bye Beatty!

Describe Beatty’s death. Make an argument that Beatty’s death was a suicide rather than a murder. DId he provoke Montag? Did he want to die? Explore this idea...

24 comments:

catherinec said...

Hey Mrs. Moritz, I posted this blog today because I wasn’t sure if I would have time tomorrow. Anyway, back to the blog question. It seems as though Beatty had seen this type of scenario before he was even fire chief and he new how to act upon it. Or maybe he new of Montag’s plans and made Montag so mad that, in outrage, Montage killed him as a way of paying for his actions. It could also be said that Beatty made it look as though Montag had murdered him, but instead he really wanted to die himself because he felt the same way Montag felt about books. He could no longer stand the absence and outcasting of books that he decided enough is enough and death is the answer to end suffering.

erinp said...

Well, when I read about Beatty dying I was surprised that Montag would kill him. But as I finished reading, I could see Montag's point of view saying that maybe Beatty wanted to die. I think his death was suicide and murder. He didn't try to stop Montag from killing him, which could be like suicide. On the other hand, maybe it was murder and he didn't say anything or stop Montag because it was happening so fast he didn't know what to do. I think he provoked Montag by insulting him and just being mean to him. Montag seems to be getting angrier each day with the people around him and them not liking books or understanding, so Beatty's comments made him lose it and burn him. I really don't know if Beatty wanted to die. I agree with what catherine said, about feeling the same way as Montag, but he just had different ways of showing it. Which is ok, but not if you're going to die. He might've just wanted to be done with the world and how it was, and instead of finding a way to try and fix it he basically just left.

matthewg said...

Beatty was burned to death by Montag. However, the writer intended for this to be interpreted as a suicide firstly because of foreshadowing, and secondly because what leads up to Beatty's death. The foreshadowing element was that another fireman mentioned how someone at another station committed suicide using a Mechanical Hound. In the same way that the fireman that used the Mechanical Hound, Beatty intentionally pushes Montag to the point where he snaps. Beatty obviously understood very well what he was doing when he was burning books, and he saw society going downhill, so he decided to escape using suicide. In a way, he might have also wanted to shake up society by going out as extravagantly as possible so that people would realize what is happening.

Also, Montag says that Beatty wanted to die, which is a pretty big giveaway.

Oliviak said...

I think Beatty committed suicide. He wanted to die because he couldn’t handle everything that was going on. I think that Beatty was split between to sides.
1) He wanted to be like Montag who was finding more out about books and trying to change the way their society was running.
2) Beatty also liked being a fireman and was afeard to challenge the system.
So part of him wanted to keep doing what he was doing and the other part said no I don’t want to keep doing what I’m doing. Which was too much and so I wanted out of the situatuion.

jeffreys said...

Beatty's death was not, by definition, suicide. I think that he did provoke Montag more than he should have considering the fact that Montag had a flamethrower in his hands. I don't think that he wanted to die. He enjoyed insulting Montag and liked the feeling of superiority that he received, but he just didn't know when to stop. Putting a lethal weapon into the hands of somebody that you want to degrade is not a good idea under any circumstances.

Alexm said...

Beatty died when Montag shot a flamethrower at him. He said would burn Faber and that made Montag angry. Beatty didn't really try to avoif this death. Beatty's death was a suicide because he didn't try to avoid it. He provoked Montag by tellilng him he would burn Faber and telling Montag how foolish he was. He might have wanted to die because he was so disqappointed in the way society is that he just wantd to leave it. H ecould no longer stand how stupid and oblivous people are to the world. He might have hated it.

dermodys said...

I agree with Erin in many ways. I believe his death was partly murder and partly suicide. Beatty had provoked the murder and pushed Montag to the edge. I think Beatty kept pushing Montag by provoking him because he wanted to die and he didn’t want to look like a coward. So he in a way framed Montag because he knew that Montag had the same spark inside him that led him to challenge the system and read books. Montag didn’t have to kill Beatty but if you really think about their corrupt government and all the worse things that go on in their society was Montags deed really that terrible. I feel that a lot of people if put in Montag situation would have done the same thing. So in many ways his death was both suicide and murder.

dermodys said...

I agree with Erin in many ways. I believe his death was partly murder and partly suicide. Beatty had provoked the murder and pushed Montag to the edge. I think Beatty kept pushing Montag by provoking him because he wanted to die and he didn’t want to look like a coward. So he in a way framed Montag because he knew that Montag had the same spark inside him that led him to challenge the system and read books. Montag didn’t have to kill Beatty but if you really think about their corrupt government and all the worse things that go on in their society was Montags deed really that terrible. I feel that a lot of people if put in Montag situation would have done the same thing. So in many ways his death was both suicide and murder.

shannanp said...

I think that Beatty's death could be argued both ways. It was suicide in that he did challenge Montag to shoot him, so that made it seem like he wanted to die. Also, I think that if Montag had not shot Beatty, he probably would have committed it eventually as Beatty was a very confused person which made him want to die. He wasn't sure if he believed burning books was wrong or not. It could be argued as murder also in that Montag was very fed up with Beatty and what had happened over the course of the week and he believed Beatty to be the one who caused all of the events to happen.

kelseyl said...

I was surprised by the death of Beatty, and it could be argued both ways. Beatty was burned to death by Montag. But in a way this could be considered suicide. Mrs. Phelps and Mrs. Bowles had already sent in an alarm before Montag got to the firehouse and Beatty let it ride. So he already knew about the books when Montag came in and he started to tell him about a dream that he had. In his dream he and Montag were arguing about books. Beatty was quoting the books trying to get something out of Montag. I don't think that Beatty really had this dream. I think that he was just trying to provoke Montag and make him angry and flustered. Beatty knew what he was doing at this point and he was just trying to push Montag over the edge. Beatty wanted to die, so he was trying to make Montag kill him. Then the second alarm comes in and Beatty already knows that it is for Montag. They arrived at the house and Beatty made Montag burn down his house all by himself with a flame thrower. After Montag was done he went back outside and Beatty was provoking him some more. Finally Beatty had said too much and Montag finally snapped and burned Beatty. If Beatty had not wanted to die he wouldn't have given Montag the flame thrower, or he would have taken away the flame thrower after Montag had finished burning his house and the books. After Montag had come out of the house Beatty didn't take away the flame thrower, but he began talking to him and insulting him. Beatty would not have talked to him, tried to provoke him or given him the opportunity to kill him, if he did not want to die that night.

rachels said...

I don't think Beatty's death was necessarily a suicide. However, I think Beatty did contribute to his own death by provoking Montag to the point where he was compelled to burn him. Beatty provoked Montag by ordering him to burn his own house and books with the flamethrower. After Montag burns down his house Beatty further angers him by calling him a fool and an idiot to think reading a few books would change anything, or make him better than anyone else. He threatens to trace Faber and presumably burn him too. When Montag has had enough and finally points the flamethrower at Beatty, the captain acts indifferent to the threat and continues to belittle Montag. I think when Montag kills Beatty it was partially Beatty's fault because he knew how unstable Maontag was, and he was saying just the right things to fuel his anger. I think Beatty provoked Montag to the point of murder becuase he was starting to realize he wasn't happy, just like Montag realized at the beginning of the book. While Montag's awareness of his unhappiness inspired him to challenge the system and read books, the realization caused Beatty to want to die.

RayS said...

After the fiermen arrive at Montags own house because he was hidding books,Beatty asks why Montag felt the need to keep books. When Montag doesn't answer, Beatty hits him, knocking Faber's secret radio from his ear. Beatty picks it up, saying he will have to trace it and, "drop in on your friend". In silence, Montag switches the safety catch on the flamethrower. At first, Beatty is taken aback, but he quickly recovers and continues his berating speech, Beatty demands that Montag turn the weapon over. Montag refuses, and burns Beatty to death.

I think Beatty wanted to die, firts of all he didnt try hard to stop Montag using the flamethrower. He also Purposly provoked Montag to make him angry so that he would kill him. Montag also said he wanted to die.

mollyd said...

Beatty's death was caused by Montag burning him with a flame thrower. I do not completely think that Beatty's death was a suicide, because that is a very unusual way to commit suicide. However, it is possible that he knew Montag would be so flustered that he would probably kill Beatty in his rage. With Beatty knowing that, he provoked Montag in such a way that he would react by killing Beatty. I also think once Beatty found out Montag had books, he talked to Mildred and they formed a plan. Mildred was probably so upset and shocked by Montag, that she wanted to leave and wouldn't mind helping Beatty. I believe Beatty did want to die, but he did not want to do it himself. This explains why he would want to find a way that would allow him to die, but not hint at suicide. It was rather percieved as murder. In order for Beatty to die he had to provoke Montag for the murder to be successful.

hollyb said...

I don't believe Beatty wanted to die at that instant. I do believe that he wanted to die in the hands of Montag then just any other man. Montag did murder him, but it seemed that Beatty was happy to die. I don't think Beatty hated Montag, I think he like him for being the only other person to read books beside him and to have the knowledge of books. The only reason why Beatty was treating Montag like that was because Beatty respects the law more then he does Montag. I believe Beatty didn't like how the world was, but he didn't do anything about it because of his job, being a chief fireman. I thought the way Beatty died was very appropriate. It was like books (the knowledge of books in the form of Montag) burned him opposed to himself burning the books and the knowledge within them.

hollyb said...

for people who are wondering, our banned book fair is 1 week from friday, and our in class 451 essay is a week from thursday! Have a great rest of the weekend!!!

Madisont said...

Beatty is such a compromising character. I mean beforehand, when they had just reached Montag's house, Beatty is explaining how others die and he goes on. He says how everybody nowadays knows that it is absolutely certain that nothing will ever happen to himself.
Also right before Montag hits the fire trigger, Beatty was taunting Montag with the thought that Faber will be traced and killed. It also says that Montag will never know if it was his hands or Beatty's reaction to what Montag's hands were doing that drove him to the murder.
I think that in one mindset, Beatty didn't realize that Montag could actually do it. He didn't realize that Montag could actually pull the trigger. So he was slowly coming forward, slowly reaching out for the gun, until Montag blasted him. I think it might have been murder and Beatty thought about suicide but didn't actually think Montag could do it for him.

patrickd said...

I think that Beatty wanted to die because he provoked Montag and told him to kill him while showing to fight. Also, when Montag torched him with the flamethrower, it seemed like he didn't try to put it out.

Coled said...

Beatty was killed by Montag and his death was murder. However, Beatty probably did want to die, but i seriously doubt he wanted to die right then. I think he was trying to get a bigger reaction out of Montag, not trying to provoke action against his death. Beatty's death is by no means a suicide because there is no proof where Beatty took actions which were purposely suicidal. Provoking someone in the event where they might kill you is not at all suicide, just bad desicions leading to homecide. Beatty may have felt similar to the way Montag felt about books and was torn between curiousity and his responsibilities, but i doubt that he really wanted to die right then due to these feelings.

JenniferB said...

I was really very shocked when I read about Beatty’s death. However, I do feel that Beatty was bringing it upon himself, and so I do think that it was partially suicide, just not in the way we usually think suicide would be. I think that Beatty was trying to entice Montag to see what he would actually do and how far he would go, but I don’t think that he actually thought Montag would kill him. It seems to me that he thought he knew Montag pretty well and therefore felt secure enough that Montag would not kill him, but he was wrong. He was like Montag in the way that he had knowledge about the world, and therefore felt he had a connection to Montag.
I also think that there is a different side to what I just said though. I think that other side could be that since Beatty felt connected to Montag, and he knew how capable Montag was, he wanted to push him because he knew that he could not stand in the way of Montag and he didn’t want to try. He may have known that Montag would make a huge impact on society and wanted to help him in the only way that he knew how, and that was removing himself from possible danger.

emilyh said...

Beatty definitely provoked Montag into killing him by figuring out who Montag was allied with (Faber) and then threatening Faber's life so that Montag felt he had no choice but to kill Beatty. Beatty even tells Montag that if he has a problem, use fire to destroy the problem and gives Montag the flame thrower. Basically Beatty presents him with a problem (Beatty killing Faber), gives him a solution to the problem (use fire to kill Beatty), and gives him a weapon (flame thrower) to get to the solution. However Beatty did look surprised when Montag turned on the flame thrower, which could suggest he din't plan it. Still, the book says a "faintest bit" and when someone is about to die thier human instinct is to probably be a little excited if they know that this is their last few moments on Earth. Beatty also gives a speech about how wonderful fire is right before he gives Montag the flame thrower. Even as Montag has prepared the flame thrower to fire, Beatty continues to inslut Montag, and someone who is about to be killed or at the very least injured, would not be insulting the guy holding the gun. Beatty had resons of dying because as Montag has experienced, his revelation of the wolrd he lives in has drivin him nearly insane and Beatty has had this revelation for much longer so it has drivin him to the point of suicide. Beatty is so intelligent he would not have been able to memorize all of those facts from books without getting some meaning out of them so he could not have really believed books were deceiving. He also knows that firemen didn't always burn houses, showing that he may have done some digging just like Montag did in previous years. He could have continued to stay around their world for so long without wanting to die because he was denying the problem from himself or had an addiction to burning things the way Montag does.

MattN said...

Beaty's Death was a very morbid one in which he was blasted by the flame thrower and then was wrigling on the ground in pain before he was burned alive and smoked to ashes. His death was very much a suicide and he wanted to die, this is because he didn't want to be part of the world that was a total brainwash society. He was egging on Montag to kill him and Montag couldn't take it any more and killed him.

stephanief said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
stephanief said...

Montag killed Beatty. I think this could be seen as a suicide and a murder.By definition it is not suicide but from the way Beatty acts, he kind of does it to himself. Maybe Beatty knew he was pushing Montag to his limit, he knew he would make him so mad that he would eventually murder him. I think that maybe he wanted to die, but didn't want to look like a coward. When Montag sprayed him with the flames he didn't fight back, he just let it happen. Beatty wanted to be like Montag but didn't know how, he was afraid. Also, Montag said he wanted to die, he might have said that so he didn't feel so guilty about the crime he had just committed, but it also could be true.

I think the author killed Beatty off because he is saying that if you follow the crowd your going to get no where in life. But if you are like Montag who is trying to understand things such as how the world is working, and you take chances you will eventually succede. Beatty wants to learn and read books, but he doesn't, so he ends up dead. Montag breaks away from the crowd and tries going his own way and he got away. He will succede.

Senor Seltzer said...

I think that Beatty was a nut case. He was especially crazy due to the fact that When Montag decided to flush the skin off of Beatty's body, he did not move. Any sane person would of have high tailed it out of there. It also did not help Beatty that he kept instigating and nagging at Montag. In my opinion, he was asking for it.lol