Tuesday, September 11, 2007

Impressive...but Let's Dig Deeper.

I am really impressed with the discussion that is happening. Let's continue our discussion and let's ponder this:

There is an emerging sense of evil on the island. Where do you think it is most prevalent? How can we relate this to Macbeth?

20 comments:

MattN said...

I believe that the most prevalent source of evil on the island at this point is the spot where they keep the fire going. This is because fire is usually considered an evil source and the friend of the devil. I think that when people aren't watching the fire or somebody falls asleep to the fire then it will end up burning down the island and lots of the resources that the kids need to use to stay alive. Also another place will be the castle that Ralph and the boys found because I think that some of them will end up living there and it kind of has an eerie feeling to it the way it was explained. This is relevant to Macbeth because Lady Macbeth seems to have the bubble of evil surrounding her and wherever she goes she seems to have a bad idea that is oppressive. I like acting out Macbeth in class and Lord of the Flies happens to be kind of interesting!

mmoritz said...

Good thinking Matt. The fire will be very important at the end of the novel and I find your idea of it being linked to evil intriguing. I think a lot of times people place a somewhat "romantic" connotation to fire, but it can be dangerous and perhaps a source of evil. Keep reading my friend.

lluke said...
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lluke said...

I believe the most prevalent source of evil on the island is between Jack and Ralph. Both of these boys have similar characteristics which cause problems when conflicts arise. Although Jack is a good hunter, I believe Ralph to be the better leader because he is realistic and has a greater concern for the common good of everyone. However relavent this may be, Jack still proceeds in his quest for power. This issue relates to both Lord of the Flies and Macbeth because in each story evil arises from the desire of power.

erinp said...

I agree with both matt and lluke. I also think that there will start to be killings because of the tension that comes up on the island. Maybe Jack and Ralph will get in a big fight and then something bad will happen. Or, someone may get killed in the fire, it already happened once so it could happen again. This can relate to Macbeth because of power and the desire to have it and be the leader, or king, and what people will do to have it.

catherinec said...

I think that the most prevalent source of evil would be the outcast which just happens to be Simon. Personally, I think this because eventually the outcast will flee the tribe because of some outburst, which probably will be caused by Ralph and Jack. This will eventually cause the tribe to take sides and maybe even split up because of the escapee. I don’t think that this relates to Macbeth in any sort of way because in Macbeth someone is betraying the other and in this situation, no one is betraying another.

AlyssaC said...

Ok so I not sure if this is going to make any sense to anyone else, but it pretty much made sense to me. So could a sense of evil be coming from the creepers and the fire. Because the boy who dissapeared not only dissapeared in the fire, but he dissapeared, when the fire was burning the creepers, and he was told everyone about the 'snake beast' which is likely to be a creeper. And he was 'lost' around the fire which was burning the creepers.
And when piggy brings him missing up at the end of chapter one, the fire cracks and explodes, and and big creepers rose into the air.

Madisont said...

There is a big connection with what is going on in the island. The boys are slowly being convinced by Jack to become as evil as he has become just as Macbeth is being convinced by his wife that he should commit the murder. The fire is also a good symbol in the way it relates to the devil in most cases. The witches are all boiling a pot over a fire; at least that's the general idea of a witch. Then on the island the fire keeps going out. It is the source of the kids hope which is slowly dwindling as the "evil" consumes the kid's minds.

emilyh said...

The biggest source of evil in Lord of the Flies revolves around power between Jack and Ralph.At first Ralph and Jack seemed to respect eachother for being the leaders but as the book has progressed tension between them has grown rapidly. This tension is always about which person is stonger. For example Jack thinks he is stronger because he can hunt which he thinks is the most important ability to have on the island at this point. Ralph doesn't hunt so he thinks he is better than Ralph. Since the majority of the characters are favoring more toward Jack, it seems like they might have a mutiny against Ralph and his followers ,Piggy and Simon. This realtes to Macbeth because Macbeth is about power and doing anything to get it. With the Lady Macbeth idea perhaps Jack is Lady Macbeth who is persuading Macbeth, represented by all the boys,against Ralph, who is King Duncan. This might sound very weird but it's just a thought.

Jacque said...

Mrs. Moritz- I've been having some problems with blogger of late and was forced to redo all of my settings. Is it alright if I post as Jacque? I made a mistake when remaking my blog and don't really know how to fix it unless I start over again entirely...please let me know. ~Jaclyna


I believe the most prevalent source of evil on the island is the tension between Ralph and Jack as they each struggle for power. Another prevalent source of evil is the overwhelming fear which grasps and suffocates many on the island. Both the leadership crisis and the fear (aka the "beastie") which dwells in their vulnerable, young hearts will cause disaster and havoc. Likewise, lust for power is a major theme in Macbeth. Jack and Ralph shared a friendship born out of respect for one another at the beginning of the book; however, this friendship obviously deteriorates as Jack embarks on a quest for power and begins to resent Ralph's control over him and the other boys. Similarly, Duncan and Macbeth are cousins and friends until Macbeth's ambition and resentment distorts the relationship, the ultimate result being that Macbeth murders Duncan in order to sake his own thirst for power. Maybe this could be a foreshadowing of what will occur on the island?

I believe that Lady Macbeth is the equivalent of Jack. Lady Macbeth persuades Macbeth to murder the king. Therefore I think Jack will also persuade the little ones to mutiny and rebel agianst Ralph. I'm not sure, but it seems probable...

kennaw said...

I do agree with everyone in what they have to say. But for some reason I see the most evil in Jack. He seems like a mysterious character in the way that he's nice but when he gets mad....he gets mad. Then he just doesn't let things go. Also, the whole face painting thing was kind of creepy and dramatized for hunting down a pig if that makes any sense. I think this relates to Macbeth though because of murder in both cases. jack and his crew half to kill the pig in order to survive and get what they want which is to not have hunger. Macbeth needs to kill the king in order to get what he wants which is to be king himself. So I think that they both relate because they both kill someone or something to get what they want. (I don't know yet if Macbeth actually kills the king but I predict either lady Macbeth will or Macbeth himself.)

mmoritz said...

Wow--so much has been said. I think you are all coming to the same conclusions about what the character's represent. So far I see that most of you believe that Jack represents evil, but what about Ralph? Piggy? Simon? What about Roger...he's creepy...? Let's go beyond Jack.

rrapp said...

I think the boys on the island, particularly the "littluns", are getting impatient. It seems that they are almost getting disinterested in the island because they have already found its food, and know its terrain, already made the shelter and built sand castles. They are getting bored because its not such an exciting adventure now, as they've already experienced its the islands quirks. This is the reason I think something evil is impending.

It's like Macbeth because like the boys, Lady Macbeth is impatient and ready to kill Duncan. She knows the plan, and is just waiting for Macbeth to respond with action. She is bored and ready for the gore.

dermodys said...
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dermodys said...

I believe that the evil is found in one source and that one source only...Roger. But I do believe that when there is once source of evil and hatred it can spread very quickly, like FIRE. And this fire quickly spreads to Jack and he to is infected with the (demon) that haunts them all. Rodger could almost be compared to something like a devil just waiting for the perfect moment to strike and create havoc and drama, slowly pulling the tribe apart. Just what he (evil/demons) wants. All evil characters seem to have this in common because when you create drama, hatred becomes apparent and this is what feeds the evil inside of us all.

CatherineD said...

The most prevalent source of evil is the relationship between Jack and Ralph. But, I think Piggy is getting tired of being taken advantage of so I think eventually he will revolt. Once he revolts sides will have to be taken and I'm almost positive that the little ones will side with Piggy. This would cause a war and the death of many. This can sort of relate to Macbeth because Lady Macbeth is tired of not having alot of power. Like piggy who is tired of being taken advantage of and maybe he wants a leadership role(This all makes a touch more sense in my head).

marissas said...

I think that a prevalent source of evil in the book deals with Piggy. He is mistreated and looked down upon. He has the brains to do what Ralph and Jack are doing but doesn't have the chance to do them. The evil is starting to come through because the boys are starting to become power-hungry and impacient. They are not working together that well.

One way that this relates to Macbeth is that Lady Macbeth is also power-hungry and impacient. She is like Ralph and Jack and I think that Macbeth is like Piggy in the sense that they are both intelligent. Macbeth should not listen to his wife, and Piggy should not listen to what the others are saying to put him down.

Alexm said...

I think the evil is most prevalent in Jck because he is always out for blood and think killing the pigs is the most important. He has the knife and is always as it seems angry. He is also mean to Piggy and others who don't follow his way. He doesn't follow the best interest of the group like keeping the fire burning when it is the most important thing because it will bring possible rescuers to the island. He really messed up on letting the fire go out.

AustinD said...

I think everyoine has a little bit of evil on the island. The most aperant source is Jack, Ralph, and the fire. Jack and Ralph always bicker about what is more important, fire or food. Both agree that they are both important, but they neglect one of the options more. In the end, Ralph's side has fire, and Jack's has food and fun times. Both try to get what the others have, Ralph by the feast, Jack by raiding the camp. The Lord of the Flies is very important in the tale, killing Simon. However, the beast really isn't too developed at the point where I'm at.

AmberG said...

I feel Jack is starting to question his place on the island below Ralph.I also feel Piggy is starting to fear Jack as if he is the evil on the island.