I think that piggy needs to be listend to because he is the smartest.
Interesting...what makes you think Piggy is the smartest? Why do you think he is so vulnerable and easy to pick on? Do you think he will ever break out of his role of being "piggy"???
I think Piggy is smart because he knew what to start with in the first place. He is vulnerable because of his asthma, glasses, and weakness to be a leader. He might break out of the name, but he is kind of stuck with "piggy" for now. Also, I think Ralph has an interesting point of view on who is a leader and has a way his mind works that none of the other kids follow.
Madison-Let's talk about Ralph. I don't really understand what you mean by "has a way his mind works that none of the other kids follow". Can you explain to me what you mean?
So far, I think piggy will be a slight liability to their survival because he is the least physicly able. However, his intelect will be vital to their survival.Ralph has shown some common sense and leadership, but he seems dificult to get along with since he fought with both Piggy and Jack over what to do and the rules.Jack seems to make up for the physical abilities lost with piggy. He also seems very smart (putting food above shelter in chapter 3) and pasionate (not giving up on the food hunt). It sounds like he and his choir is a large asset.
Since I am not that far into the book, I haven't really gotten to know most characters, except for Piggy and Ralph.I really think Piggy brings a humorous atmosphere to the beginning, with all the comments and suggestions he makes. For example, he always refers to his Aunt saying something or another.And then there's Ralph, who I don't quite yet understand. I know he has an adventrous spirit, but does he even really care that they're stranded on an island?
Ralph just keeps thinking to himself a lot and doesn't really consider anyone else an asset of survival. Sometimes he is grumbling to himself about how Jack screws them up, or how Piggy whines all the time, but then other times he is saying to himself we need them because we have to keep the fire going. It becomes almost an obsession with him to keep the fire going which no other kid seems to understand.
I really think Jack's and Ralphs's friendship is going to fall apart because Jack seems to want control over his own actions; he wont beable to stand that Ralph is chief for a very long time. Also I think Raulph and Jack needs to listen to Piggy, he may seem i like a defencless fat kid but like in movies the loser always gets revenge on the bully. Plus he seems to know the right and sensible thing to do.
I don't really get piggy and wonder if the author is doing that for a reason. Maybe,he will show later that piggy had a hidden purpose.
I think that although Ralph is kind of hard to get along with he is still seen as the leader of the group. While the other boys are playing around and having fun, Ralph was already setting up huts and thinking of ways to be rescued. I think that is why he has so much influence over the other boys.
Piggy will break out of his name later in the book, i believe he will show everyone that he is worth keeping around.
I definitely agree with Kelsey-Ralph's ability to take charge is what makes the other boys follow him. I have noticed that Jack loses authority as the book goes on. I think that is because the boys begin to realize that a leader actually leads instead of just being appointed.Piggy is just endearing. I am having trouble figuring out his character, but I am not that far in the book, so I think that will get better. He just seems like a loveable character to me, but other than that I do not really know what else to think yet.
I'm going to be completely honest in saying that I'm only on chapter two of the book. So far my reaction to the book is that I think Piggy is extremely smart and Ralph acts like a leader. Although Piggy seems like a smart kid, he seems to follow Ralph so that Ralph will except him more. For example, when Ralph took off his clothes and jumped into the gross river, Piggy did the same after he waited for awhile. It's as if Piggy wants Ralph to think he is a cool kid. I haven't been introduced to Jack or Simon yet but obviously I have a lot of reading to do so once I get to chapter six, I will post the rest of my thoughts.
My first impression of Lord of the Flies was that it reminded me of Animal Farm in a way, and made me start to wonder if Lord of the Flies was an allegory, too. I couldn't remember if anything about Lord of the Flies was mentioned about being an allegory in class, so I looked it up and found that it was. From reading just the first few chapters I think that Ralph, Piggy, Simon and Jack will be considered the leaders of the island. However, a conflict between the two older boys, Jack and Ralph is inevitable because each has a certain desire to be leader of the boys on the island. Jack's obsession with pigs, and Piggy's obsession with making sure others don't act like children will also cause conflict.
When we saw the Macbeth movies, Macbeth's intial reaction to hearing that he would be king reminded me of Ralph's reacton to being chief. They both had this shock and then they began to like the idea that they are going to get power. I believe Piggy represents the pig that they kill. Piggy because of his asthma he is a easier target to prey on. Piggy should have a role of power because he has great people skills and trys to make everything happen. Piggy is taken for granted. Ralph has somewhat abused his power and does not know how to use it to his advantage. Jack is slowly trying to take Ralph's power. Piggy has the possibility to break out of being Piggy if he stops letting Ralph and Jack bully him.
I think that somthing is going to go very wrong on the island. There is already a lot of tension between the boys espacially between Jack and Ralph. The tension will build and lead up to somthing awful.
I think that Ralph is a good leader because he realizes that getting rescued is more important than being obsessed with finding pigs to eat when there are other sources of food on the island. However, he got this idea from Piggy. Piggy may be the mastermind behind Ralph. Ralph is very jealous of any small acknowledgement to Jack from the other boys. Jack also acts this way toward Ralph.This brings about a lot of unmentioned tension. Maybe Jack was so obsessed with capturing the pig becuase he wanted to seem better than Ralph to the other boys or he wanted to impress Ralph with capturing the pig. Simon seems to have great maturity for someone so young and he seems the least selfish boy in the whole group. For example he gives berries to the younger kids and helps Ralph with building the hut. He is the only one who shows any kindness to Piggy also. Simon seems to have sort of an obligation to Ralph than to Jack, maybe because Ralph picked him to go explore with him on the first day they arrived on the island. Piggy also seems mature for his age and cares about the little ones more than the others. He is the only one who notices that the boy with the birthmrk is missing and he seems to bring Ralph and the rest of the boys back to reality more than one time in the book.
i think that piggy is going to become helpful because he helped light the fire and he wants to help. the only problem about piggy is he cares too much about other people like when the boy died in the fire.
My intail thought of Lord of the Flies is that it would very scary for a bunch of kids to be trapped on a an island all alone. I think that will eventually realize how scary it is and see it is not just a game. This will force it to fight and batttles about how to handle their problems. Their disagreements will eventually lead to their downfall. I also think Piggy would be the best leader because he sees the reality of their problems. He sees that this is a life and death situation. He sees that something has to be done for the group to survive. Ralph represents leadership eventhough sometimes bad leadership. Piggy represnets the voice of reason. Simon represents hard work. Jack represnts how the group needs to find food.
Piggy is going to harm the chances of the kids survival. Piggy is fat, weak, and slow. He will always be Piggy. Maybe the kids should just kill Piggy and eat him. There is alot of meat on him.
I think Piggy is the most vulnerable one, and will get killed and eaten first, if someone does. Even though he seems to be smart, he isn't the fittest or most athletic so the other boys might just see him as a problem and just someone who is there, even though he is trying to help, and fit in, it isn't going to happen.
First off I am very surprised at evand’s reaction, this type of thinking is what I think the author is trying to bring forth so we can understand that human kind has many evils that lurk inside of each and every person. This brings me to Jack, at first we see him as a leader that is trying to help and bring the tribe closer, but as the book progresses we see that he could potentially be one of the evils (aka:beasts) in the book. This is shown mainly through the way Jack leads a mutiny against Ralph’s leadership because he wants the power to himself. Ralph is of course the elected leader of the boys and he tries to think of ways to better there society by lighting the fire to try to get them rescued, to build strong shelters, and to keep them under domestic order. You can tell he is not the strongest or the smartest but in the long run is a good leader. Unfortunately nobody listens to him and this leads to udder chaos. Piggy is the runt of the group his weight and asthma leave him to be ridiculed by the group. He is super smart but as we know that does not help if nobody listens. Simon is the only one who understands what the beast is and he is also the only one who had the courage to investigate what the others saw on the mountain but before he can tell the others what he learned he is killed in a tribal ritual.
It seems to me, the island tension is getting out of control. Jack is most obviously mutinous against Ralph. What happened to their former bond? Now that Jack wants leadership, the way he is thinking gives us the idea he is going to do something about it soon. They have become savages with no sense of right and wrong.
Honestly, I am not very far into the book at all. My initial reaction, though, is that Piggy is clearly the smartest one, but everybody is ignoring his imput. His lack of phyisical ability is making people think that he is weak in other areas as well. It seems to me that Ralph wants to be the leader and to have the respect of all of the other boys, but he isn't used to being a a positoin of leadership and doesn't know how to earn that respect. It is obvious that Jack wants to be the leader. He was Head boy at the school and is very much already the leader of the chior. He is more accustomed to the leadership role but it seems like he is bossy and the others don't like or respect him much. I don't know much about Simon yet, but he seems to be the most selfless of the four.
I also think that Piggy is the smartest. He seems to be the only one that really cares that they're stranded and he's the only one that is serious about thinking up a rescue plan.To me it seems like everyone else kind of thinks of being stranded as a game. They want to be rescued but they also like the idea of running their own island with no adults. Piggy thinks realistically.
First and foremost, yikes Evan. Are you serious? If so, we need to talk! :)All of you have some pretty strong opinions about the characters. Do you think they represent something more? Something beyond "leader" or "runt"? Your thoughts...
So far, I think that this book is a little wierd and sad. Its also a very long read. Im not saying that I dont like it but its not what I usually read. I think that Ralph symbloizes a good leader as opposed to jack. He is calmer and just someone who demands more respect. I feel really bad for Piggy because the kids are so mean to him. Even though he grabs the conch alot and says stuff that doesnt need saying, sometimes what he says is important and actually has meaning. I think its really creepy and sad that the little boy disappeared in the fire and this book is just a bit morbid. But I guess its an interesting book so far.
My first reaction is that I relate Lord of the Flies to other books I've read, about surviving in wilderness until rescue comes.I think Ralf represents leadership in the group. He is elected leader, and he organizes so people have specific jobs, like watching the fire and hunting. He is focused on the good of the group, and being rescued is a top priority for him. I think Piggy represents intelligence. He has some really good ideas and seems more mature than the group overall. When he voices concerns or suggestions, however, he doesn't get listened to. I think his lack of athleticism makes the other boys think he's weak. The group automatically defers to Ralf or Jack for direction.I think Jack represents the desire for violence and power. He obviously wanted to be the leader of the group at the beginning, and was disappointed when we didn't get the vote. After his initial hesitation to kill the pig, he becomes obsessed with hunting.
I think that the characters may represent groups of people in our society today. Ralph may represent leaders who use commonsense and are long-term thinkers, where as Jack may represent leaders who are short-term thinkers. The younger boys may represent followers of leaders.
I think that this book is very slow and confusing. The author seems to change settings alot. For the most part, the book has improved as it has progressed. Also, I found that in most cases I didn't relate to the book at all. I think that Jack will form his own kind of group because he doesn't really agree with Ralph in most situations. I think that Ralph and Piggy will, for the most part, be the leaders since Ralph has the ability to lead and Piggy is very smart. Simon seems like he might just fall into temptation and become a follower of Jack. I think Jack represents strong personalities and how they can complicate situations. Piggy and Ralph together sort of represent a leadership super team. With Ralph's natural leader instincts and Piggy's intelligence, they have already conquered some tough problems together. Simon kind of represents the silent voice that may have some good ideas but doesn't feel they are worth expressing.
I think that piggy is so far the most vulnerable physically. His asthma plays a role in this. Also, I think that Ralph belittles him quite a bit with his leadership role and Piggy wants a more significant part. However, I think that Piggy is the smartest and easiest to get along with, except no one will really listen to him.Ralph is also very smart, but I agree, is hard to get along with. He seems to be a little self absorbed. He wants to help and get off the island, but he is kind of abusing his power as the tribe leader. Also, no-one is really listening to other people. The older ones all think they are right and the younger ones get off track too easily. Communication is pretty poor between all of the boys.
I think Piggy deserves to be made fun at. If he is not going to stand up for himself, that is his problem. Jack is also way to into killing a pig. There is other food on the island. Ralph does seem like a good guy, he deserves to be the leader. Jack is getting into way to many fights. I wonder if he acted like this at the school?
I think that the boys don't really understand they are trapped on a deserted island because they don't seem to be helping like when Simon was building huts for the little boys he barely got any help. I think Piggy has the potential to be very helpful but that no one listens to him or gives him a chance.
I first thought of The Hatchet because of the survival in the wilderness sort of thing. Then later I thought of Animal Farm for some reason. I'm not very far in the book, but it seems like Ralph is kind of getting a little in over his head about being the chief because he blew that conch. I think he needs to watch out for Jack because Jack seems like the kind of person who would do anything to get his way, even if it means something really drastic and wrong. I also think that Piggy should get a little more credit on Ralph's part because he is the smartest one of the whole group and he seems like he could be the one who could keep the group remembering their moral values, and not become destructive, and gross savages that only care about what's best for them. I also want to point out that Ralph has a huge responsibility to the group to keep them from becoming savages. If Jack gains enough influence over the younger ones, they could end up like a miniature version of him: greedy, power hungry, and just plain mean. Ralph has to realize that Jack isn't very trustworthy.Finally I have to say that the whole set up of the book forebodes a set of huge and unfortunate events that are going to alter the book and its charaters, and probably are going to make this book very unpleasant to read. I'm pretty sure the author wrote this to tell everyone about the evil in us all.
Ralph may be the leader of their group, but he seems slightly ignorant of their circumstances. He is leading the boys in their struggle for survival, but they seem too focused on surviving, and not focused enough on getting off the island. He may be taking charge and acting out the most, especially compared to Piggy, who may appear to be a hindrance, but will prove useful as the book progresses. Although Piggy may seem vulnerable, i doubt that he is in any danger, and the rest of the boys will eventually realize the value of having Piggy by their side. Piggy gets stepped on and shot down by Ralph and Jack quite often, and I believe only after they discourage him to the point where he doesn't feel like getting involved, and the rest of the boys are in a tight spot will they realize how much Piggy's intellect contributes to their group.As for Jack, he seems to dislike the idea of Ralph taking charge over the boys. Jack hungers for the power and authority that Ralph has over the pack, and believes that in his hands the band of boys will become more progressive. The tension is obvious, and I believe this will eventually lead to some sort of brawl between Jack and Ralph, that will draw the boys apart.
Ok so... personally, i don't like piggy too much, he just seems annoying, but he does have some good ideas, but now Jack seems smart, so he could just come up with the ideas, so if piggy dies it would be kinda sad, but hey life would totally go on. Ralph, he seems pretty cool, i like him the most so far, he seems pretty much like an odd kid though. But that's totally fine, because the world needs some odd ones. And simon seems pretty chill, but truthfully i haven't read too far, so i wouldn't know really, but it's fine, no needs to worry.
That's what I'm talking about...finally some thoughtful discussion. It's 8:30 pm Sunday and I am going to grade and get ready for bed. If you post after this, up until midnight, you will receive credit. Later. :)
I think Jack is very jealous of Ralph because he wants to be leader. He is also selfish because he only does what he wants to do. Ralph is a good leader but nobody listens to him because they like Jack better. I personally believe Ralph is best suited for the job because he has the best ideas and he knows what he is doing. Piggy should also have his ideas considered too. I know not many people like him but that doesn't mean they should at least listen.
I think that Ralph is a little stuck up by the way he treats the other boys in the book. But then again he could just be independent. I also do not understand why all the kids treat piggy like crap. He is a nice kid.
Mattn's computor isn't working so i'm posting it for him. Please note that this is Mattn's commentMattn said...Hmmmm, well my initial response to this book was that it was just going to be another super boring assigned book. I realized that I was totally wrong. Even though the first chapter is very dull and establishes all of the characters once the book gets past the fourth chapter things start getting interesting. I believe that there are many lessons to be learned from this book. I think that Ralph is the most mature kid on the island and the kids would be smart to listen to him even though they all listen to Jack, of course little kids like the idea of hunting over chores, or for that matter life. I think that Piggy is a very smart kid as well but just wants to fit in so keeps to himself for most of the time. He tries to do what Ralph does to fit in and hopefully make a friend. I also think that Jack is super power hungry and he will be the whole groups’ ultimate downfall. I think Jack is going to take his choir kids and make there own “tribe” where they can hunt all day and not have to take care of the fire or do important tasks for survival at all. Sadly, all the little kids do not see the error in this problem and many will follow his roll which will eventually get them killed. I would like to discuss this in class if we have any time because I agree with many peoples responses, but I would like to hear their reasoning for some of their thoughts. I also do not agree with a couple of blogs. Not saying any names (Evan). Overall I think this is going to be a fun book with many twists and turns.
I believe that Ralph is definately the right choice for a leader. To me, it seems that he is the only one who actually understands the extent of what has happened to them. He appears to be a really sweet kid, although he is rather harsh on Piggy sometimes.Piggy is the odd kid out. Annoying, slow, and obnoxious as he may be, he is a nice boy, and he is only trying to help!Jack Jack Jack... What to say about Jack... I cannot really believe how rough he was when he was first introduced. They just crashed on an island... Come on Jack! Give the boys a break!
I'm finally through chapter six! After I read the first couple of chapters I thought Lord of the Flies was going to be another story about how people amazingly survive on a deserted island. However, as I kept reading I decided this wasn't your normal, epic island tale. Being from a big family I can really relate to the hardships the boys face. In the end, I think all the characters will learn to apperciate one another. Every character's strengths and weaknesses are a vital part of the group's survival.
I agree with OliviaK in saying that the characters most represent the parts we play in society. I think the author is trying to display how vital each and every person is to the groups’ survival. Each is different in his or her own way and each plays an important part. If the group wants to survive they need to learn to work together and use each others strengths and weaknesses to benefit themselves.
I think that all the boys portray this to be a wierd game. Instead of being scared they treat it as more of a way to be free. Piggy seems to be the only one who acctually knows how desperate a situation it is. He thinks the most logically, making him the smartest. Ralph is a good leader but he isn't realy realizing how important food and shelter are.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that everybody thinks Evan's comment was funny but so gruesome!! So now I've read to chapter six and I think that my initial reaction to Lord of the Flies was that it's actually amazing how much these kids know. For instance that Piggy's glasses would help start the fire when it clashed with the sun, how to make the shelters with only trees, and the idea of keeping the fire going would help rescue them if a boat saw them. I mean that's a pretty complex way of thinking for kids with no parents and they're stranded on an island. Anyways, I think that since everyone has been really mad at some point, maybe they will stay friends and work together or they will all turn against each other. I know my friends and I have been irritated at each other sometimes for being together too long and so being stranded on an island and not knowing when you're going to be rescued might cause some tension between everyone. Where I'm at in the book Ralph got mad because the fire was burned out when Jack and his crew went and got the pig to eat and Jack has not forgiven Ralph yet for the way Ralph reacted ti him. Ralph was about to give up being the chief but i really hope he doesn't. Yes even though he does get uptight he has good intentions of how to survive and is one of the few that realize they are stranded on an island and it isn't all fun and games. Also, everyone under estimates Piggy and I think that Piggy is really smart and people should listen to him instead of just looking at the fact that he's fat and annoying.
As I am reading Lord of the Flies I am always surprised. You can basically tell the main plot of the story at the beginning of the book. You can assume that even though they seem to organizing things well, they will not stay that way. Things are bound to go wrong. But, as I am reading I read something and i was like, "they did what?" So I am very interested to see how this ends.I agree with everyone else in that Piggy and Ralph are the smartest. They seem to be the only ones who really care about becoming an organized unified group. The others want to be rescued but they are not as serious about it. I think that nobody really realizes how smart Piggy actually is becasue they judge him only by his outward appearance. I feel sorry for him becasue of that. They need to give him a chance. Ralph is just as smart but I think he trie to be "cool" for Jack. He probably might treat Piggy a little nicer if he wasn't trying to impress Jack.
I think that Jack is kind of like the devil. He tries to control all the boys, especially Ralph because he doesn't follow Jack. Then he creates conflict and makes the boys think only of themselves. He tempts the twins to go hunting and leave the fire. Jack makes the boys blood thirsty and savage. He always chooses the easy way out, that seems like a good choice at the time, as opposed to the responsible decision. His whole red, white, and black color scheme are similar to Hitler's.
My first reaction was that the author was taking was too long to establish the setting and to introduce the characters. It kind of took away from the book. My thought on Ralph is that he is impressive leader for how much he has to control. It is almost as if he was born a leader. Even though, Ralph tends to blow his top because of Jacks behavior, he still is a remarkable leader. Piggy, on the other hand, could use some help. Evan’s comment was a little drastic about Piggy, but Piggy just doesn’t know how to manage kids his own age. Personally, I think that Jack will eventually revolt and maybe overthrow Ralph because he never seems to really agree with all of Ralph’s judgments and systems.
I think this book is boring yet interest. i think it is boring at first when they are introducing the characters and the setting. but i think it's really interesting to read a book from boy's perspective and have no female characters. i think the main issue is going to be when they will finally learn that as corny as it sounds teamwork is essential ecspecially when no one has the needed knowledge in this situation. I tink each boy has soemthing to offer but they just don't know it yet or don't have the chance to know it yet.
I think Jack might turn into more of a problem than a leader. I feel he is too controlling and not responsible enough, and that he does not get the severity of the situation.
So far, as I have almost finished the book, I am not too astonished at what is happening.I agree that Jack could end up being their ultimate downfall, with his power hungry mind. He is becoming evil, with face paint and starting to love to feel the control and power over killing a living thing. I fear this will be an accident waiting to happen that can't be changed. That signifies he is falling into what will become a probable fight between piggy and ralph against all of the other boys.I think Ralph is trying to do what's right under the circumstances. He is probably scared what Jack might try next after raiding their camp and becoming as he is: evil, conniving, and a killer
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