Wednesday, April 2, 2008

Fourth Hour Fischbowl Question

Here's a question our group came up with.

After WWI, the German Empire crumbled and became desperate for a "reincarnation" to its former glory/ power. Do you think that England (in 1984) resorted to a "dictatorship" after the suffering and loss it had endured after The Second World War in order to regenerate its former prosperity as Germany had done with Adolf Hitler? Do you think Big Brother will be destroyed much like Hitler was after defeat was encountered in war (maybe the one mentioned in the book)?

12 comments:

mmoritz said...

Awesome question Dennis. This should get the ball rolling.

dermodys said...

I think that this is very plausable. The connections seen between these two events are numerous which leads me to believe that this could be a possible senario.

KiraW said...

I think that there are many things that are similar between the two. For example, both are revered as God even though there true goals are to controle mankind. I do hope that in the end he is destroyed and that the people will relize how wrong they were and try to fix things in a much more realistic way.

Anna K said...

I also do see many similarities between the two. It is human nature to want to control everything and when a country is falling apart, many people try to take advantage of it. I believe that some how, Big Brother will be destroyed but it will take a lot of time for society to go back to the way it used to be.

Alexm said...

Yes I think that it is very much suffering and destruction that bring people to turn to power hungry leaders like Aldolf Hitler and Big Brother. People look for strength to lead them to prosperity and this is exactly what they see in these kind of leaders. I think that maybe pressure form the war and Big Brother's own people will bring about his demise. I think that because of Big Brother's unfair treatment of his people will bring a thought and need to rebel and this will bring him down. People will always rebel for their rights because without rights they aren't really even people.

Sydney said...

In 1984, I do think that England resorted to a “dictatorship” after the suffering and loss it had endured after the Second World War so it could regenerate its former prosperity. The example about how Germany had resorted the same way as the England in 1984, but under Adolf Hitler sounds extremely similar. Though, I do not think that Big Brother will be destroyed much like Hitler. In Hitler’s case, the allies had to work together to defeat him. I think that in 1984 the people in the party will work “undercover” and defeat Big Brother from inside. It might not be all the people in the party, but if a group wanting to defeat Big Brother come together, just maybe it will result like Hitler.

Oliviak said...

I think that Big Brother will be destroyed or overthrown. I agree with Sydney, I think that Big Brother will not be overthrown or destroyed by other governments like Hitler was, but overthrown by its own people. I also think that the war may play a little bit into the overthrowing but I don’t think that this is the only reason why the government will be overthrown.

rachels said...

I definitely think that parallels can be drawn between Germany's rise to power through a dictatorship and England's "revolution" in 1984 towards a totalitarian government. In Germany after the Great War, the country was suffering and humiliated. In that situation people looked towards a strong and commanding leader to lead them out of depression and bring their former glory back. In 1984, it's possible that a similar takeover occurred. However, I don't think Big Brother could be destroyed in the same way Hitler was in the Second World War. In 1984 alliances in the war shift every few years, and the specific reasons for fighting the war are not clear to the public. I think the war is fought in 1984 in the other countries not to eradicate evil and 'make the world safe for democracy' (or the type of government believed to be right), but to further manipulate the public.

marissas said...

I do see the similarities between Germany and England (in 1984). England probably did resort to a dictatorship to regenerate its former prosperity as Hitler did with Germany. At a time of suffering, people seem to thionk that resorting to dictatorship will solve their problems. Even though they may find out otherwise, it is likely to have occurred. I do think that Big Brother will be destroyed, but not exactly like Hitler. It will probably take rebellion and challenging the system to overcome Big Brother unlike overcoming Hitler.

shannanp said...

I do see many similarities between England 1984 and Germany during the dictatorship of Hiltler. However, I don't think that Big Brother will be destroyed at all, regardless of warring conflicts and results of defeat. I think that Hitler "brainwashed" people to a certain point, but I think that Big Brother does it even past the extreme. People can't think for themselves because of the Thought Police and they also can't rebel at all, they are constantly under watch. So, I do not think that Big Brother will be defeated like Hitler was, Big Brother will reign for a long time because they have really "brainwashed" society to the point that they probably cannot function alone anymore.

Jacque said...

I think England�s �rebellion� and the ensuing reign of Big Brother were probably brought on by suffering, economic hardships, and demoralization caused by war. However, WWII may or may not have been the war that drove the English people to this point of desperation. The novel mentions that England (or �Oceania� rather) has been constantly at war since the time of WWII, and I believe any of the wars or perhaps simply the constancy of them may have caused the revolution. Total suffering of a people group makes any country prone to revolution; if these people are offered any sort of hope for a more promising future, they will devour it without realizing the consequences. This is exemplified in the Communist Revolution in Russia during WWI and the rise of Hitler in Germany after WWI. I do find it interesting that the party chooses to stay at war constantly despite the fact that it was probably war which drove the English people to rebellion.
I do not think Big Brother will be destroyed like Hitler though, because I don�t think Big Brother is an actual human being. He simply represents the government as a strong, powerful, flawless being. This allows the public to love the party with a greater fervency because it is embodied in the physical form of a human. Also, I don�t think other nations will converge to drive him out, because though the nations of the future world are always at war, they sound very much the same as one another (in terms of oppressive government). I actually haven�t read the second half of this book ever, but I personally don�t believe Big Brother and the party he symbolizes will ever be driven out. The party has survived through squelching any sort of resistance and free-thought, and I don�t think Winston will be an exception to this. In the end, the party will gain control of every part of his being and life, even his thoughts.

Tasha P said...

I do think that in some ways the fall of WWII had some part in the making of Big Brother's empire, but I don't think that it itself was the cause. Winston said something about remembering the 50s (I think), and he was trying so hard to remember anything that was before Big Brother. WWII ended in 1945, that's 10 years or so. Maybe the ministries were being developed and schemeing their grand plan for England. Maybe. I do think that the suffering and loss after WWII made the people desperate for reglorification, and Big Brother and his empire seized that post-war time to come to power. But still, I don't think that itself was the cause of BB. Maybe it was like F451 and the government gradually evolved into that horrible society.
I'm not so sure that BB will be taken down; he probably will since there probably wouldn't be a story if he wasn't taken down, but I don't see any way to bring him down. He has the people so wrapped up into thinking that he is so wonderful, I don't know how they'll be able to break away from it. Hitler had his people thinking a certain way, being fed certain information, but the main reason that he was brought down was because of WWII, he was too greedy and took too much land too soon and then focused all of his attention on the death camps so the Allies advanced toward his empire and eventually took him down because he and his good soldiers were too busy to defend it. It was a fault on Hitler, because he's only one person. In 1984, 4 ministries and BB (if he's real) have the power divided among them; I'm not so sure there really is a war in Eurasia or wherever. It changes constantly, or so BB says. I don't know that BB will ever be brought down, it would be hard, and in F451, Montag found some people who memorized books to travel along with, they didn't really bring down the government. Where could Winston possibly go? Who could Winston possibly trust? He's not even sure who is the most dangerous to him right now. I really do hope that BB is brought down, but honestly I can't see any way to strip that society of its manipulative power.